STATUS: Today felt like a Monday. I had one task that I absolutely needed to accomplish and it hasn’t happened yet.
What’s playing on the iPod right now? TENDERNESS by General Public
It should have occurred to me yesterday that I hadn’t mentioned the genres for the two projects I shopped with prickly protagonists.
One was literary fiction not unlike The Confederacy Of Dunces but with a female protagonist.
And I’m not kidding when I say that the author and I talked about the fact that if she had been a male writer with a male protag, we probably could have sold it. Yeah. Don’t get me started on that.
The other project was commercial mainstream (with a leaning towards women’s fiction) because the story was told by three female narrators of wildly varying ages (so untraditional in that sense).
And trust me, I’m not confusing an unlikeable character with an unlikeable action. In a lot of sample pages I see, they are one and the same.
I personally adore complicated characters so what I am saying is that I’ve got to love the novel a lot to take the risk since it has been such a hard sell. I think a good question to ask is this: if this character was alive and a real person, would I want to spend time in his or her company?
If the answer is yes, then I’ll take a chance and damn the torpedoes (so to speak). If the answer is no, well then, there you have it.
Oh, I get it now. It’s the ‘Save the Cat’ issue. That I understand. Heck, I bought the book by Blake Snyder.
It is an interesting society that perceives the same actions of a female and male character differently. Sexism is alive and strong even in literature. Personally, I’d love to hear your thoughts/experience on that one.
Very interesting, regarding the genres. It will be even more interesting to see how well Alice Sebold’s new novel The Almost Moon goes over with readers. Can the story about a character who says: “When all is said and done, killing my mother came easily” make it to the best seller lists? Hmm… I haven’t read the book, just heard about it, and it already gives me the heebies. The action is totally unlikable, but I have no clue about the character, though she’s not starting out high on my list potential friends. I may pass on this one. The Book of Ruth was disturbing enough. Shudders.
Great point Karen. I have The Almost Moon on my to be read list but have to admit it was the opening line that hooked me.
And I’m curious to know all the answers, why and how?
I finished read the ARC of The Almost Moon this weekend. Ms. Sebold has a talent for pulling off subject matter that most authors wouldn’t touch with a ten foot keyboard. I’m still digesting this novel, and I wouldn’t want to spoil anything, but I definitely didn’t “just love” this book like I did her first two. And actually, my lack of enthusiasm has nothing what so ever to do with the likability of the MC and everything to do with her monumental use of jarring flashbacks. It seems like I put this book down quite a bit before finishing.
“I think a good question to ask is this: if this character was alive and a real person, would I want to spend time in his or her company?”
That seems like a really, really good way to put it.
It is an interesting society that perceives the same actions of a female and male character differently. Sexism is alive and strong even in literature. Personally, I’d love to hear your thoughts/experience on that one.
Oooh. Me too. I think it would be fascinating, especially since Kristin deals with women’s fiction on a regular basis.
Actually, I thought literary novels tend to love prickly protagonists. The pricklier, the better.
Would it have made any difference to put a man’s name on the project or something that wouldn’t give away gender?
Now I am really interested to find out what this book was all about. Dang those publishers for not wanting to get it into print!
“And I’m not kidding when I say that the author and I talked about the fact that if she had been a male writer with a male protag, we probably could have sold it. Yeah. Don’t get me started on that.”
May be a real probability.
Okay. Literary and mainstream. Neither are genres I’m marketing to at the moment–and I was ready to go “huh? What? There’s plenty of prickly sorts in the science fiction world…”
This really surprises me. Prickly characters are alive and well everywhere… fiction and reality. Gregory House, some of the Wisteria Lane girls… flaws are abound and making the word go round! I’m totally more interested in those types. Male OR Female. And I’m not sure I’d want to spend my “real life” time with any of those ones I love to spend time with for a short time bits – that’s the beauty of a book! You can shut it, shake your head, do your own life stuff with a smile, and then go back to your book, secretly wishing YOU had a few more thorns…
I’m confused about this, because from what I’ve seen of the young adult market, mean characters are very popular right now: the Clique series, and all those.
Also, I’ve heard from so many people who love the antagonist more than the protagonist. In fact, I get asked a lot if I know any books where the antagonist wins, or from the antagonist’s perspective. If editors want characters who don’t cheat, lie, steal, murder– or who are just flawed humans– I don’t think they’re in touch with what readers want.
Still, how the story is told makes the difference. Is the character just a thief, or is the character stealing food to stay alive? Does the character feel sorry for what they did/do? If characters are well-rounded, I like them to be flawed. In fact, if characters seem too perfect/sweet, I’d think that would push many readers away. In reality, the teacher’s pet in the front row or the person at work who works harder and makes you look bad IS the person you hate!
Kimber An: I think your avatar needs a Xanax.
The Almost Moon: I too thought about the premise being a tough sell (along with a child rape/murder story line) but Alice Sebold seems to have proved the industry wrong, and good point mentioning the popularity of Gregory House.
“Almost’s” early reviews were quite harsh, but I’ve seen some favorable ones lately, comparing the mother to Livia Soprano! I may get the book from the library after the semester’s over to give it a chance and see if the flashbacks don’t make me put it down.
Chrisopher: Agreed. I think all first time writers need to ask ourselves this about our MC: “I think a good question to ask is this: if this character was alive and a real person, would I want to spend time in his or her company?”
Seems like you can get away with less appealing characters when you’re a more established writer.
I wondered if Kristen had just changed the author and character’s gender in that other book, she’d be able to sell it.
Last year I attended a reading at Squaw Valley where Alice Sebold unveiled a few chapters of The Almost Moon (which was untitled at the time).
I think the resort crowd that turned out was take aback a bit. It was a pretty dark read. I’d describe the crowd reaction as ambivalent, at best.
This type of rejection from editors in commercial (I don’t know about literary) has been going around a lot lately. I’ve heard it mentioned in writers groups, at a conference and recently during dinner with a friend who is an agent.
Where do publishers/editors get these ideas, anyway? Do they go by trends? Market studies? Polls? The fallacious, overbearing assumption that people actually “like” stereotypes?
I’m with most of the posters on this: as a reader, I often find myself rooting for the less ‘likable’ characters (not to say the downright evil), as they tend to be more interesting and layered than the ‘good, virtuous and true’. I mean, Humbert Humbert was absolutely awful, yes, but still very human and strangely compelling. And, NO, I wouldn’t ever want to go for tea with him if he was real, but I still think Lolita is a great book (which, incidentally, got rejected 40 times…)
Maybe authors and agents should start a Coalition for the Defence of Evil Protagonists’ Right to Exist? I’d like to see what editors and publishers would do if all the new material presented to them involved compelling, interesting anti-heroes (male and female) in well-crafted stories… Ah… Happy thoughts… 😀
Hi Kristin – I usually read and don’t post here, but I found it interesting that this was your topic after I just resurrected an old manuscript last night to make my MC more “sympathetic.”
When a prospective agent wrote that “I was on the right track but didn’t give a reason to care about my MC” I shelved that story for almost 10 yrs! Shame on me!
But reading her now, I see it clearly. I haven’t spelled out at all enough why she’s so prickly and why she makes the choices she does. There was not enough exposure to the hurt on the inside to explain the bad behavior on the outside.
Here’s hoping once I make her changes, and start resubmitting, she’ll reach more agents like you (who might appreciate a sympathetically prickly protagonist) and she’ll slip through the publishers’ narrow cracks of acceptability.
Prickly for a reason works for me and I enjoy the read. Prickly just for the sake showing attitude, doesn’t.
Regarding sexism in writing there is a cool site called The Genie Gender and you put in a sample of your writing and it determines if you are a male or female writer. Every time I tried it, it says I’m female. I guess I should change my name to Toni. Check it out at my blog at http://writersedgeinfo.blogspot.com/2007/10/are-you-female-or-male-writer.html
Kristin, I’m with the other posters here who think you should conduct an experiment and have your author rewrite the book w/ a male protagonist, and possibly under a male name. What do you have to lose? If it didn’t sell the way it was, maybe this is the only way to salvage it. Certainly the results would make for an interesting discussion on your blog!
Anon 4:55 said: It is an interesting society that perceives the same actions of a female and male character differently.
But I think it works both ways. There are some actions/personality traits that might be acceptable in a woman but frowned upon in a man.