STATUS: October is a big royalty month for us so a lot of statements and a lot of money coming in.
What’s playing on the iPod right now? I CONFESS by The English Beat
So my blog entry on Tuesday totally got me thinking. Agents can make money from conferences and here’s a terrific example.
I have a debut middle grade novel coming out this week (October 6) and this novel totally made me money from a conference.
How?
I actually met Janice Hardy at the Surrey International Writers Conference two years ago. She had scheduled a pitch appointment with me. She sat down for a 10 minute session and pitched me the project.
I was immediately intrigued and asked for sample pages. I emailed my associate Sara Megibow and told her to be on the lookout for it. The sample pages came in. I read and liked them so asked for the full.
Then I signed her. We did a revision (because the ending needed work). When ready, we went out on submission to editors.
I accepted a six-figure pre-empt for the Healing Wars trilogy.
I’d say that’s making money! It’s a project I may not have landed if I hadn’t attended the conference so technically, this is money I made from a conference. Grin. Just not in the way that writers mistakenly assume.
I actually can’t remember if Surrey charges an extra fee for the pitch appointments or whether that’s part of the general conference price. Either way, agents don’t receive that money; the conference does.
Happy Release Week for THE SHIFTER Janice!
Oooo…that book sounds good…
I was lucky enough to receive an ARC of The Shifter. Loves it!! I can’t wait until everyone else reads it so I can discuss it with someone else.
I am so excited to read The Shifter! I’ve been waiting for this book since you wrote about the title and the cover 😀
Without a doubt, one of the coolest covers I’ve ever seen. Congrats to you and Janice!
It seems that making pitches can pay off really well for an aspiring author.
I am so happy for Janice! I met her recently at Ally Carter’s book signing and she is seriously one of the nicest people. I loved hearing about her road publication and cannot wait to read her book!
oooo, so cool. The cover of that book looks amazing, gonna have to read.
I am thrilled to hear the news that this book was signed up at SiWC. I am teaching in Vancouver on Saturday and need an example of success from both the author and agent’s POV.
Great stuff!!
I love reading Janice’s blog (her advice on craft is wonderful), so I’m sure The Shifter’s amazing. I’m waiting for my copy to be delivered any day now. So glad you “discovered” her!
Well, I hope the book does well. I hope the trilogy does well, but I couldn’t let an agent revise the ending of one of my novels. As an author, could you?
To offer a comparison: what gallery owner would ever take a painter’s painting and suggest they paint over some portion of it with some other image? It would be ludicrous to even suggest such a thing.
Yet, if this author wanted the six-figure deal, I guess they were willing to compromise. But that makes the book more of a work-for-hire than a work of art. And for someone like me, the consumer, it’s also kind of a rip off, because there’s a name on the book and it’s not really a product that name could have produced on their own.
I realize Stephen King did this with The Stand, but I think it’s safe to say that he regretted that a great deal, and as it happened, when he had the weight to do so, he got the full-length version published.
And it’s not necessarily a good thing for the editor over at Harper Collins, either. Because what if while working on the second book of the trilogy, the writer can’t come up with a plausible story? Will her agent write the book for her as a ghostwriter?
But hey, what do I care? I got Milli Vanilli going on YouTube right now, and I don’t care who was actually singing. I’m just saying no one’s going to change the content of my novel(s). Does that mean I won’t get published? Life is what life is—most of it hasn’t gone the way I would have wanted it to. We make plans, we have hopes and dreams and the bus hits us the next day just the same. But my stories, in the end, will be my stories.
And here’s something that sticks like a splinter in my mind: why would an agent tell the public they helped fix their author’s ending? I mean, here I am a member of the reading public, and I’m left thinking the author is incapable of writing a novel without her agent’s help. And one thing I know about any literary agent: they never type or speak even one word by accident. Sometimes why someone says something is far more interesting than what they say.
But hey, again, why should I even care?
I’ve been looking forward to reading The Shifter too! I loved the opening pages on Amazon and can already tell I’m going to love it. Many, many congratulations to Janice!
I love fantasy and this book looks awesome. Can’t wait to read it 🙂
Cannot wait for this book. Congrats, Janice!!
I was also lucky enough to read an ARC of this book (I first heard of it on this blog and thought it sounded fantastic), and CONGRATULATIONS to both Kristin and Janice on the nice deal! I can’t wait to read the next books in the series. 🙂
@Gordon: I would definitely let an agent suggest changes to my story. Just like I’d let an editor make changes. Just like I’d let beta readers suggest changes. I probably wouldn’t change all of their suggestions, but other eyes help make a story far better than it was before!
I can accept that I, on my own, can’t make my stories the best they can possibly be. Everyone needs help.
And Kristin didn’t say she changed the ending: she said they revised it.
To be honest, from what I’ve heard of the work that agents and editors do with books, I’m impressed it was only the ending that needed work. That probably means the book was pretty damn good to begin with.
(Also, I suspect the gallery owner either wouldn’t buy a painting he thought was sub-standard; or would buy it for a reduced price, and sell it for a reduced price.)
I don’t think many authors could write a really good novel which needs absolutely no revision whatsoever, let alone write such a novel without any outside help – beta readers, critique groups, agents, editors, whatever.
@Ruth – I couldn’t agree more. Isn’t that precisely what editting is all about?
I know my current novel’s ending is potentially controversial because I’ve had mixed reactions to it – some love it, some not so keen. I would be loathe to change it, but if it makes the difference between published and not published, then I’ll certainly listen to any suggestions.
Ruth in bold: @Gordon: I would definitely let an agent suggest changes to my story. Just like I’d let an editor make changes. Just like I’d let beta readers suggest changes. I probably wouldn’t change all of their suggestions, but other eyes help make a story far better than it was before!
A zillion people can “suggest” all of the changes they want, but that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about the agent saying this or that part doesn’t really work, and then requiring a revision that does work in his or her opinion before they will submit it to editors.
I can accept that I, on my own, can’t make my stories the best they can possibly be. Everyone needs help.
That’s not true. Everyone does not need help. I don’t. You can like or dislike my work, but you can’t help me write it. My themes are my themes; my illustration of them is my original work. If you can’t make your stories the best they can be on your own, then you are not an author. You may be a writer of some sort, but you are not an author.
And Kristin didn’t say she changed the ending: she said they revised it.
I apologize. I realize we’re in a post-Clinton world where we have to debate the meaning of “is” but in my opinion revision includes the concept of change.
(Also, I suspect the gallery owner either wouldn’t buy a painting he thought was sub-standard; or would buy it for a reduced price, and sell it for a reduced price.)
Exactly. That’s how it should be. That’s the only power an agent or an editor should have over an author.
But that’s the problem with money, isn’t it? To quote Lou Mannheim (Hal Holbrook’s character in the movie Wall Street): “The problem with money is that it makes people do things they don’t want to do.”
I don’t think many authors could write a really good novel which needs absolutely no revision whatsoever, let alone write such a novel without any outside help – beta readers, critique groups, agents, editors, whatever.
Well, if you mean copyediting, yes. But revisions and the like? If you put all those people in the pot, how could you ever delude yourself into thinking that it’s your soup?
If you can’t spin a story from beginning to end and write it in a way that is pleasing to yourself first and then to readers in general, you’re not an author. You’re just some wannabe hack hoping for a lottery win at the expense of a publisher.
I won’t go on about it here, but I think I’ll write in my own blog about the glory of being an author and why so many want to share in it and steal it if they can. You’re attitude suggests you want everything a world famous author has, but you don’t have the talent or the dedication to get there, but you don’t consider that a barrier.
Gordon, Kristin discussed her ideas with me about the ending before I singed with her. I just loved her ideas and knew they would make the book better. And what I changed was just detail stuff. The story never changed one bit, just how things played out to deepen what was already there. Plus, she never said, do this so that, just made suggestions on a more general thematic level and I ran with it.
Publishing is a group effort. People will and do make suggestions, but in the end, all those suggestions are made with the sole purpose of making the book better. And authors have the right to say no if they disagree. Lots of folks have made suggestions throughout this process, but the story has NEVER changed from my original vision.
Side note to everyone else, thanks for all the kind words 🙂
Whatever a persons feelings are on revising or editing aside this book and the premise sounds so very intriguing. Thank you.
Hey, I received my copy of Writer’s Digest yesterday and saw the article on Janice Hardy and her trilogy. Way to go. Best of luck on the book.
LGSmith
Shiny-Happy people (REM) don’t have to do what’s naughty. Good for you, K-Rock.
Actually, I would rather read a real(ish) story with believable struggle from someone gifted in their craft. Not fluff with a pretty, shiny-happy cover. But that’s beside the point.
Where was I? Oh yes, now I remember: the utter waste of time, money and energy the Writer’s Conference is, particularly from the male writer’s perspective, unless they are willing to shed a li’l somp’n somp’n. Know what I’m sayin’? (Play Funk Cold Medina here)
Even then, MEN? Look at the cover. Read the name. Guys, is your name Janice? Are you thirteen or can you pretend you are? If not. You’re out. If you go, once again, this time wear a dress, and high heels to the conference, change your name to Janice, or Mary, or whatever. Also, bring a story about a tiny little girl, in a tiny little village, with all sorts of magical whatnots; something like that, see? Or, or….oooh, I know, make it about a rebel “highland rogue” type guy with good abs.
Be sure to tell the agent your personal story of struggle about – who knows – dealing with an abusive husband, uh, uh, chronic fatigue syndrome, uh, you know, something you can share on Oprah.
See? Easy! Path to success! Little engine that could sort of deal, tinged with a hint of the victim.
You know, men? Don’t be such a whiner! Improve the total package, everything about yourself, (namely erase your masculinity) okay?
And then! See? This, this stuff up here is what sells, see? Don’t you get that? Didn’t you get the memo! Clone JK Rolling, repackage, rewrite in a different setting, re-submit.
Why? Because agents and publishers have lost their damned minds and think that nothing new or original will work, see? And they run the show as evidenced by the fact THEY tell YOU how to END YOUR STORIES! Not, how to improve flow, grammar et al; but HOW TO END THE THING!?
If you are not willing to go through all of the above, bring a cake of cash in an envelope, just like on Sopranos, because (and this is mostly for the men) it’s the only shot you’ve got.
Not that this process is actually working when it comes to the overall health of book publishing, reading, and writing.
Hi Kristin,
We love that Janice is one of your success stories! At the Surrey International Writers’ Conference, we do not charge extra for sessions with editors or agents — they included with registration. Our 2009 conference takes place October 23-25th this year — and we’re looking for more success stories like Janice’s! Details at http://www.siwc.ca
~kc dyer
conference coordinator
Surrey International Writers’ Conference
Having attended the Surrey conference for years and being lucky enough to speak at it this year- I can attest they have a great conference. It’s a great chance to meet some impressive authors in workshops and the pitch sessions do not cost extra.
Huge congrats to Janice!
Hello Janice,
Gordon, Kristin discussed her ideas with me about the ending before I singed with her. I just loved her ideas and knew they would make the book better. And what I changed was just detail stuff. The story never changed one bit, just how things played out to deepen what was already there.
Well, that’s good news. I hope The Shifter does well along with the rest of the trilogy.
Plus, she never said, do this so that, just made suggestions on a more general thematic level and I ran with it.
Thematic level? I thought you said it was just details? But, whatever, it’s your deal, and if you’re happy with the end result, then great.
Publishing is a group effort. People will and do make suggestions, but in the end, all those suggestions are made with the sole purpose of making the book better.
So, who’s the author then? Look, I’m not saying that editors and agents shouldn’t point out mechanics, or contradictions, or timeline problems–that kind of stuff. In fact, that’s what they’re for, in my opinion. But to change things around to “make the book better” is kind of like what a screenwriter does. But that’s a copyright that has to be granted by the “author” of the novel.
Publishing is indeed a group effort. Writing a novel is done alone. It is done to try to bring balance to the themes that have been branded onto us by our life experiences.
Otherwise, you have James Patterson. You have a trade name, not an authored work of art. That’s all I’m trying to say.
And authors have the right to say no if they disagree. Lots of folks have made suggestions throughout this process, but the story has NEVER changed from my original vision.
Again, that’s good news. I’m not sure how your agent can make thematic suggestions that you run with and the story not be changed from your original vision, but I’m sure you have that worked out. Don’t you find it kind of strange though, that I know about it, and we’re having this discussion? Be that as it may, I don’t want anythnig I say to be construed as suggesting that the book is not a quality story that is well worth the money to buy and read. I’m sure it is.
And, again, I wish you the best of luck, and a sincere congratulations for having been published by a major publisher. I hope the trilogy really takes off.
Thanks Gordon, I have my fingers crossed for it as well.
Let me clarify what I meant by thematic level. Kristin never told me what to do with my theme in any way shape or form, she suggested something more like this (generalized of course to not give the ending away). “Is there a way to raise the stakes yet again, tying it into your theme and making it really personal for Nya?” She never gave me specifics, just a general thought. She liked my theme and thought I could use it to really add something powerful to the story as a whole. I then looked at what I had, and found a way to make the ending matter more to Nya and deepen the theme I’d already established, so it all tied together in an impactful way. The ideas were mine. The encouragement to push myself came from Kristin. And she was dead on, because my original ending didn’t raise the stakes. It was very similar to a major event that happens two-thirds of the way through the story. There was really no reason for the reader to keep reading past that point, because the stakes didn’t matter to Nya on a personal level. It was just plot form plot’s sake. Kristin saw that, I didn’t, and she thought changing how the ending unfolded would make it a better book and enhance the story I was already telling. And she was right. It’s a much better ending and one I would not have come up with had she not pushed me to think deeper.
At no time in my publishing experience has anyone EVER said: do xyz. I’m the author, it’s my story, it’s my vision. “Making the book better” is my phrase, and I made all the changes to it. If I didn’t agree with something and didn’t genuinely feel the story would be stronger because of that change, I didn’t do it. I made only the changes that made MY story better. And no one minded. My agent and editor are more like coaches, supporting me and encouraging me to jump a little higher, run a little faster, do one more sit up or stick that landing. How I do that is entirely up to me. These folks have vast experience in this, and I’d be a fool to ignore their advice. But how I apply it (if I decide to) is my call.
Selling your novel does not mean you give up control of it. You get opportunities to learn and grow as a writer from people who have been through this many, many times. I’ve found the process quite enjoyable and have learned a great deal about writing and storytelling. I know it’s made me a better writer, and I’ll bring that to the next book, and the next, and the next, and that’s what I want. To be able to continue to tell stories that people will enjoy reading. I’ll use everything I can to do that
Hey Jannice,
That all sounds very positive. Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me; you certainly didn’t have to, so I appreciate that.
I don’t typically read this genre, but I have it down for the 15th of October to buy a Kindle copy. I’m glad the publisher went with a Kindle version. It’s much easier to read a book on Kindle.
Take care, Jannice.
Glad I could help. I think a lot of folks don’t know how this all works (I know I didn’t before I got into it all), and it can be scary thinking you’ll have no control over something that matters so much to you.
I hope you enjoy it! Take care.
“Guys, is your name Janice? Are you thirteen or can you pretend you are? If not. You’re out.”
Seriously, men. If you aren’t named Janice–if you’re stuck with some piece-of-crap name like “Dan Brown” or “Stephen King,” or even, God forbid, “Patrick Rothfuss” or “Garth Stein,” you might as well just hang it up now because nobody will ever publish you.
Gordin and David: You sure are representing your sex admirably!
One of you is so certain of himself and his genius tales that he won’t change a word. The other has just given up because poor men never get anywhere in the publishing world. Hmmm… wonder why J.K.Rowling used her INITIALS instead of her name, so she wouldn’t be rejected because of her gender?
Not being willing to take constructive criticism is not artistic freedom, it’s arrogance. Thinking that a man has to write “fluffy” stories about 13-year-olds is just nonsense. Men make more money writing and sell more books. Fact. Look at the bestseller lists.
But go ahead and tell yourselves whatever makes you feel better, while Janice enjoys her royalties on this and all the books to come.
@ Gordin: you need to take a chill pill, mate. You make it sound like Kristin strapped Janice to a chair, put a gun to her head and said, ‘Change the ending or your brain will be all over this table.’
No matter what you think, you cannot have a perfect story that won’t go through some change. Your agent and your editor will suggest changes. Of course, you can decline … if it’s logical to do so. If it’s not then you’ll just be a difficult author to work with and no one will sign you. Period. Live with it.
Btw, I’m reading The Pain Merchant (or The Shifter, for you Americans). One word to describe this book: awesome!
The shoes make the man. You know though, he may have been able to pull this off but the white shoes blow it every time.
Mr. Jerome:
As I see it, the fact that you acknowledge the changing of contradictions and mechanics or timeline errors demonstrates a flaw in your painter/gallery metaphor. After all, a gallery owner would not suggest even a correction of light source inconsistency or similar. These are different media, and while the metaphor works on one level, I don’t think it proves anything about the publishing process. I’d like to carry it a little further, though, because I think there’s more revision and critique involved in the processes of the arts than some people think.
Both of my parents are painters, and my dad a professor of the studio arts. They often look over each other’s work when it is in a stage analogous to a rough draft.
The first important thing here is to get a fresh eye on your work. This is something that every reader in the world will have except you. Even putting the work away for weeks, months, years, will not give you a completely detached perspective.
The second important thing is that the observer/critique partner offers, as the terms suggest, observations and critiques. Obviously, if someone rewrote your ending and handed you the new version, the work would no longer be yours. That would be as if Mom looked at one of Dad’s paintings, grabbed the brush, and changed something. What actually happens is that she will say,
“My eye is immediately drawn to this area. Did you do that on purpose?”
And Dad will say,
“That area isn’t supposed to jump out that way, but I see I’ve made the contrast so sharp there that it does. I think I’ll dull that down a little so that the image reads better as a whole.”
Then he will make the changes. The changes are made in his style, by his hand, to achieve the effect he wants. They are not the same changes Mom would have made had she done it – they are absolutely Dad’s. It’s only that her viewpoint has helped him find how to accomplish what he wanted to with the work.
*Continued to Mr. Jerome*
It seems to me that a total rule-out of the input of others would be staggeringly limiting. There are myriad situations in which feedback can help a writer improve a story, making it not only more enjoyable for others, but better at expressing the themes and ideas that the writer wanted to express. Among many reasons to consider the information that you can only get from other people:
– You can learn factual information that you missed in your research – not only potentially correcting mistakes, but opening up new possibilities. For example, maybe a doctor could look at your work and say that while this injury CAN cause seizures, as you’ve had it do, it can just as easily cause blindness – which you realize would actually serve your plot even better, but you never considered it because you didn’t know it could happen.
– Similarly, someone whose life experiences and mental workings are different from yours (i.e. everyone else on the planet) can offer possibilities or viewpoints you simply didn’t see. Naturally, you never make changes that you don’t think make the story better, more like what you’d want it to be. After all, just because the inspiration to make a change came from someone’s suggestion (more tension, more emotion, what-have-you), doesn’t mean the change you come up with isn’t yours. Aren’t you inspired by things and people all the time? What makes the ensuing work yours is that you write it, your way.
– Two words: Unintentionally. Funny. This is incredibly easy for the author of a work to miss.
Certainly if your view is that every word of your writing (barring mechanics and consistency errors) should be written without any kind of suggestion, criticism, or help from others, then you are entitled to that opinion. It may hurt your publishing chances, even if your writing is excellent, because your absolute refusal to consider editorial suggestions could make you seem arrogant and hard to work with.
That aside, I think you should refrain from stating, on a public blog, in absolute terms, what you think makes someone “an author.” Realize that you have just posted, in a community of people who mostly seem to appreciate their beta readers, editors, etc., that anyone who sometimes makes changes based on others’ suggestions, “may be a writer of some sort, but . . . not an author.” You also speak of such people “deluding” themselves into thinking their edited work is still their own. These are your opinions, and it is tactless to state them as if they were facts.
Also, I don’t mean to be rude, but I felt disbelief when you asked Ms. Hardy whether, if her novel was still her original work, she thought it was strange that you were having the discussion. The whole reason the discussion occurred was because you voiced an opinion with which she then disagreed. Anyone can make a claim to which others respond with disagreement. That doesn’t mean the first person was right, or even that the first person had even anything resembling a good point.
To Mr. Kearns:
Your points are neither witty nor the tiniest bit accurate. Writers’ conferences, like most professional meetings, vary in their helpfulness, and it’s true that the majority of people attending will not walk out with a new agent or editor. A good conference, however, is an opportunity for learning, socializing, and networking. The only people who invariably fail to benefit are those incapable of learning or of interacting with other people. Neither of these failures was, last time I checked, a sex-linked trait.